[hpsdr] FW: hpsdr] [FPGA_USB] Review/CommentsFPGA_USBBoard -April 5, 2006

Fri Apr 14 13:11:38 PDT 2006

Steve

Thanks for the response. I guess we had a compiler 'bake off' last year at
about this time. The FED has a lot of glamorous features with it's IDE. We
all 'chose' it over the C18 and a couple of others based on 'universality
(16 & 18) PICS, IDE features, and price. However, there were a lot of bugs
and it turns out to basically a 1 or 2 man product formerly called Pixie.

There were only three of us working on it with Phil doing most of the work.
I had fun reading three books by O'reilly from cover to cover and playing
with Phil's code. 

When Chris brought the subject up a couple of weeks ago, I got to thinking
that with the 'new initiative' here in HPSDR and also that there are many
folks experienced in PIC development that it might be good if the PIC
discussion were revived. With the modular nature of having the ~$50 Atlas
board the PIC and it's huge code base and experienced programmers, might
have another go at it. Obviously, the PIC is not as fast as the FPGA, but if
we could do away with the serial port emulation, or use Phil_C's virtual
serial port, which is not dependent on a USART we could cram what we need
over USB 2 at 12 mbs. I agree HID is not going to 'cut' it. However, if the
2550/4550 could do a true 12 mbs it would probably work. PICS are cheaper
and have functionality we need. I am NOT putting down the FPGA core project
we have going here, for sure, the FPGA is well suited for the designers
here, along with a lot of learning for a lot of us! I'ts all pretty exciting
stuff!

Thanks
Eric

-----Original Message-----
From: hpsdr-bounces at hpsdr.org [mailto:hpsdr-bounces at hpsdr.org] On Behalf Of
Steven Bible
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 2:52 PM
To: hpsdr at hpsdr.org
Subject: Re: [hpsdr] FW: hpsdr] [FPGA_USB] Review/CommentsFPGA_USBBoard
-April 5, 2006

***** High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *****

Hi Eric and Group,

Thanks for the summary.  I took a look at the Lionheart schematic.  It would
be cool to have a lite version of Lionheart with the PIC18F4550.

>From reading the threads, I hope everyone realizes there are many different
types of data transfer types and USB classes.  As has been mentioned on this
list, the USRP uses Bulk Transfer.  The other transfer to consider is
Isochronous Data Transfer like that used in sound cards.  Everyone may also
know that Matt Ettus N2MJI (USRP and GNU Radio) has done a lot of testing on
the Cypress USB chip and various PC motherboards to learn their true data
transfer capabilites.

Depending on the firmware in the PIC18F4550 and the PC driver, you can
program them for whatever data transfer type.  On the Microchip website
there is the HID, CDC, and Mass Storage classes firmware.  I wonder if the
mass storage class firmware, which uses the bulk only transfer mode, could
be modified to the bulk transfer mode?  I trust you've seen application note
AN1003?

Also, I might mention that the CDC class is the set of drivers that makes
the serial port look alike.  Those PC side drivers are only in Windows 2000
and XP.

There has been a lot of work with the PIC18F2550 and libusb on the
pickit-devel list.  See (http://groups.google.com/group/pickit-devel)

I've spent most of my time programming the PIC18F2550 in general purpose HID
mode, using the drivers from Jan Axelson's web site (http://www.lvr.com/)
and modifying the Microchip HID driver.  Of course HID won't be appropriate
for the type of data transfer needed for Lionheart.

I've been using the Microchip C18 compiler.  Sorry, I have not heard of the
FED C Compiler mentioned in the threads.  Is there any reason not to use the
C18 compiler?

73,

- Steve, N7HPR
 (n7hpr at tapr.org)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Ellison [mailto:ecellison at comcast.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:54 PM
> To: 'Steven Bible'; hpsdr at hpsdr.org
> Subject: RE: [hpsdr] FW: hpsdr] [FPGA_USB] Review/Comments FPGA_USBBoard
> -April 5, 2006
>
>
> Steve
>
> Thanks for jumping in.
>
> Basically what Phil - VK6APH and our '2 other person team' were
> trying to do
> was to use the 4550's built in USB to do what we are trying to do with the
> the Lionheart or Phil's 'heart' AND the Janus boards are projected to do.
> That is 'feed' audio and control signals from USB directly into PowerSDR
> software.
>
> We were going to use the Wolfson A/D and the 4550 as a stand
> alone 'station
> accessory' for the SDR-1000 via USB.
>
>
> Frustrations with the buggy FED C compiler was a MAJOR
> impediment, however,
> Phil also had some issues with speed of feeding audio over the USB through
> the PIC.
>
> I need to have Phil_H comment further.
>
> Since the Atlas buss gives us the capability of experimenting
> with 'building
> blocks' I felt that it would be valid to go back and investigate
> a PIC as a
> 'heart' to this or other projects scheduled as part of HPSDR.
>
> Additionally if the Atlas buss proves out it's capability, as I think it
> will, there is certainly a universal platform to develop and 'build on'
> other projects planned for this project. Even other totally different
> projects.
>
> Thanks
> Eric
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I've been lurking for several months now, only because I have
> more projects
> than time.  I've been trying to catch up.
>
> What is it you want to do with the PIC18F2550/4550?
>
> - Steve N7HPR
>  (n7hpr at tapr.org)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Ellison
> Sent: Apr 12, 2006 3:59 PM
> To: "'Christopher T. Day'" , 'High Performance Software Defined Radio
> Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [hpsdr] FW: hpsdr] [FPGA_USB] Review/Comments FPGA_USB Board
> -April 5, 2006
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Sorry for the late reply. I have all the software for the Picdem board and
> will have to get it for you, I forgot to ship the disk. I don't
> think it is
> available on the website.
>
>
>
> Hmmm..
>
>
>
> Anything can "Ride the Atlas Rails!"
>
>
>
> Methinks there are MANY more PIC programmers than FPGA
> programmers, although
> hardware is in a different category entirely. The PIC 4550 has USB
> 'built-in'. If one considers what Beppe and Wood Box Radio, as
> well as Peter
> - G3XJP designing the Pic-A-Star did with a PIC what about the
> HPSDR project
> add-in's!
>
>
>
> Just 'food for thought' with someone much more capable than me driving the
> program. The project boards, and compiler were a no-strings
> offer. You have
> no obligation to do anything with it!
>
>
>
> One of Phil_H's (and me and Steve - K5FR's) complaints was that
> we couldn't
> compile for the 4550 with the FED complier, without errors, generated by
> bugs in the compiler. Enough to make a grown man cry! Especially when the
> weight Phil was carrying kept falling on his toes!
>
>
>
> I still learned a lot over Phil's frustration, and at my age 'learning
> something new' translates to FUN! I have a stack of 'spec sheets' in the
> 'reading room' (As well as QST's and now RadCom!)
>
>
>
> Have fun!
>
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hpsdr-bounces at hpsdr.org [mailto:hpsdr-bounces at hpsdr.org] On
> Behalf Of
> Steven Bible
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:30 PM
> To: hpsdr at hpsdr.org
> Subject: Re: [hpsdr] FW: hpsdr] [FPGA_USB] Review/Comments FPGA_USBBoard
> -April 5, 2006
>
> ***** High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *****
>
>

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