[hpsdr] HIDMaker

Thu Apr 20 15:12:21 PDT 2006

Steve

Thanks for all. I guess I'll have to renew my TAPR membership! (smile).

Essentially Phil - VK6APH and I came to the same conclusion regarding
Hidmaker, and at the time it was 'only' about 350 bux. However, at that time
we were few, and fairly ignorant regarding the HID and Audio Classes. At the
same time we were having problems with the C compiler we chose, as well as
the serial emulation of the 4550 usb. The project died of mutual surrender
(at the time). I still think the 4550 can do it, but will take a 'town' and
more experienced PIC programmers, etc. Also why I passed the FED C license
and proto boards to Chris without any obligation to do anything with it.

The Atlas buss, and the potential for 'modularity' of current proposed
boards, would allow a re-evaluation of the PIC(s), if someone wanted to pick
it up.

I have offered to donate the 'no touch' 3 board minimum on the first of the
alpha boards currently proposed. I'll stand on that pledge.  I have talked
with Lyle about this quite a bit from a personal standpoint. The problem
will actually be the upfront funding of the proven board, hopefully without
the rigamerol of keeping track of 'group buys' and the attendant delays. I
personally feel that it behooves this group that we as users and developers
should at least produce a working Atlas and "FPGA Heart" to prove that this
IS a serious effort, before we search for other funding. I was considering
an LLC, however, TAPR probably has many of the safeguards in place to
'buffer' personal commitment from liability. Let's talk again as we progress
to product stage. Since last November I knew this is going to be a winner!

Thanks
Eric

-----Original Message-----
From: hpsdr-bounces at hpsdr.org [mailto:hpsdr-bounces at hpsdr.org] On Behalf Of
Steven Bible
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:05 AM
To: hpsdr at hpsdr.org
Subject: [hpsdr] HIDMaker

***** High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *****

Gang,

I did some research on HIDMaker.  My concern was it worth $600 for this
group.  Asking a knowledgable friend, here is his reply:

> HIDmaker is a great tool for those who don't
> know USB/MCU/ and/or Win32 API programming.
> So if the customer is technically savvy, and
> has access to PICkit2 code examples... he
> shouldn't have to spend $600.

Do keep in mind that HIDMaker is only creating the HID code, the HID driver
already exists in all OS's (including Mac and Linux).  As I've mentioned, I
already have general HID code I can share.

But if it is Bulk Transfer you want, then that's a completely different
subject.  Then the App Note AN1003 on the MCHP website is the place to
start.  I also enquired about the fastest transfere rate, my friend replied:

> The max bulk trf rate I have seen on the
> 4550 is 1088KB /s (yes that's 1MB/s.)

I hope this helps.

On a different topic,

I hope everyone knows that TAPR can help pay for the materials and tools you
need for this project.  That's why TAPR exists: "TAPR is a community that
provides leadership and resources to
radio amateurs for the purpose of advancing the radio art."

We're starting the planning of the ARRL/TAPR Digital Communications
Conference Sep. 15-17, 2006 in Tucson.  It will be the 25th Anniversary of
TAPR and the DCC.  The DCC has been presenting Software Define Radio since
2000 when I presented the W7PUA DSP-10, Gerald Youngblood K5SDR presented in
2002 in Denver, Matt Ettus N2JMI and Eric Bloosom K7GNU presented several
SDR seminars 2002 and 2003.

73,

- Steve, N7HPR
 (n7hpr at tapr.org)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Ellison [mailto:ecellison at comcast.net]
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 1:30 PM
> To: 'Steven Bible'
> Subject: RE: [hpsdr] FW: hpsdr] [FPGA_USB] Review/CommentsFPGA_USBBoard
> -April 5, 2006
>
>
> Steve!
>
> We also were checking out Hidmaker as a 'group buy' to do some of the
> lifting.
>
> http://www.tracesystemsinc.com/usb_tools.ivnu
>
>
> Kinda expensive, but they have opened up the pipe a bit for the 4550, so
> guess with the folks around here we could also.
>
> Thanks!
> Eric
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hpsdr-bounces at hpsdr.org [mailto:hpsdr-bounces at hpsdr.org] On
> Behalf Of
> Steven Bible
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 2:52 PM
> To: hpsdr at hpsdr.org
> Subject: Re: [hpsdr] FW: hpsdr] [FPGA_USB] Review/CommentsFPGA_USBBoard
> -April 5, 2006
>
> ***** High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *****
>
> Hi Eric and Group,
>
> Thanks for the summary.  I took a look at the Lionheart
> schematic.  It would
> be cool to have a lite version of Lionheart with the PIC18F4550.
>
> >From reading the threads, I hope everyone realizes there are
> many different
> types of data transfer types and USB classes.  As has been
> mentioned on this
> list, the USRP uses Bulk Transfer.  The other transfer to consider is
> Isochronous Data Transfer like that used in sound cards.
> Everyone may also
> know that Matt Ettus N2MJI (USRP and GNU Radio) has done a lot of
> testing on
> the Cypress USB chip and various PC motherboards to learn their true data
> transfer capabilites.
>
> Depending on the firmware in the PIC18F4550 and the PC driver, you can
> program them for whatever data transfer type.  On the Microchip website
> there is the HID, CDC, and Mass Storage classes firmware.  I wonder if the
> mass storage class firmware, which uses the bulk only transfer mode, could
> be modified to the bulk transfer mode?  I trust you've seen
> application note
> AN1003?
>
> Also, I might mention that the CDC class is the set of drivers that makes
> the serial port look alike.  Those PC side drivers are only in
> Windows 2000
> and XP.
>
> There has been a lot of work with the PIC18F2550 and libusb on the
> pickit-devel list.  See (http://groups.google.com/group/pickit-devel)
>
> I've spent most of my time programming the PIC18F2550 in general
> purpose HID
> mode, using the drivers from Jan Axelson's web site (http://www.lvr.com/)
> and modifying the Microchip HID driver.  Of course HID won't be
> appropriate
> for the type of data transfer needed for Lionheart.
>
> I've been using the Microchip C18 compiler.  Sorry, I have not
> heard of the
> FED C Compiler mentioned in the threads.  Is there any reason not
> to use the
> C18 compiler?
>
> 73,
>
> - Steve, N7HPR
>  (n7hpr at tapr.org)
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eric Ellison [mailto:ecellison at comcast.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:54 PM
> > To: 'Steven Bible'; hpsdr at hpsdr.org
> > Subject: RE: [hpsdr] FW: hpsdr] [FPGA_USB] Review/Comments FPGA_USBBoard
> > -April 5, 2006
> >
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > Thanks for jumping in.
> >
> > Basically what Phil - VK6APH and our '2 other person team' were
> > trying to do
> > was to use the 4550's built in USB to do what we are trying to
> do with the
> > the Lionheart or Phil's 'heart' AND the Janus boards are
> projected to do.
> > That is 'feed' audio and control signals from USB directly into PowerSDR
> > software.
> >
> > We were going to use the Wolfson A/D and the 4550 as a stand
> > alone 'station
> > accessory' for the SDR-1000 via USB.
> >
> >
> > Frustrations with the buggy FED C compiler was a MAJOR
> > impediment, however,
> > Phil also had some issues with speed of feeding audio over the
> USB through
> > the PIC.
> >
> > I need to have Phil_H comment further.
> >
> > Since the Atlas buss gives us the capability of experimenting
> > with 'building
> > blocks' I felt that it would be valid to go back and investigate
> > a PIC as a
> > 'heart' to this or other projects scheduled as part of HPSDR.
> >
> > Additionally if the Atlas buss proves out it's capability, as I think it
> > will, there is certainly a universal platform to develop and 'build on'
> > other projects planned for this project. Even other totally different
> > projects.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Eric
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been lurking for several months now, only because I have
> > more projects
> > than time.  I've been trying to catch up.
> >
> > What is it you want to do with the PIC18F2550/4550?
> >
> > - Steve N7HPR
> >  (n7hpr at tapr.org)
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eric Ellison
> > Sent: Apr 12, 2006 3:59 PM
> > To: "'Christopher T. Day'" , 'High Performance Software Defined Radio
> > Discussion List'
> > Subject: Re: [hpsdr] FW: hpsdr] [FPGA_USB] Review/Comments
> FPGA_USB Board
> > -April 5, 2006
> >
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > Sorry for the late reply. I have all the software for the
> Picdem board and
> > will have to get it for you, I forgot to ship the disk. I don't
> > think it is
> > available on the website.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hmmm..
> >
> >
> >
> > Anything can "Ride the Atlas Rails!"
> >
> >
> >
> > Methinks there are MANY more PIC programmers than FPGA
> > programmers, although
> > hardware is in a different category entirely. The PIC 4550 has USB
> > 'built-in'. If one considers what Beppe and Wood Box Radio, as
> > well as Peter
> > - G3XJP designing the Pic-A-Star did with a PIC what about the
> > HPSDR project
> > add-in's!
> >
> >
> >
> > Just 'food for thought' with someone much more capable than me
> driving the
> > program. The project boards, and compiler were a no-strings
> > offer. You have
> > no obligation to do anything with it!
> >
> >
> >
> > One of Phil_H's (and me and Steve - K5FR's) complaints was that
> > we couldn't
> > compile for the 4550 with the FED complier, without errors, generated by
> > bugs in the compiler. Enough to make a grown man cry!
> Especially when the
> > weight Phil was carrying kept falling on his toes!
> >
> >
> >
> > I still learned a lot over Phil's frustration, and at my age 'learning
> > something new' translates to FUN! I have a stack of 'spec sheets' in the
> > 'reading room' (As well as QST's and now RadCom!)
> >
> >
> >
> > Have fun!
> >
> >
> >
> > Eric
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hpsdr-bounces at hpsdr.org [mailto:hpsdr-bounces at hpsdr.org] On
> > Behalf Of
> > Steven Bible
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:30 PM
> > To: hpsdr at hpsdr.org
> > Subject: Re: [hpsdr] FW: hpsdr] [FPGA_USB] Review/Comments FPGA_USBBoard
> > -April 5, 2006
> >
> > ***** High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *****
> >
> >
>
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