[hpsdr] Ozy/Magister will likely stop working on Win10 in about 60 days

Sat Aug 20 10:11:04 PDT 2016

What would be germane is whether we need to go to the expense of purchasing a code-signing EV key, signing and having microsoft countersign the Ozy/Magister drivers, AS I EXPLAINED IN MY EMAIL.  But you seem to want to ignore the goals of this discussion, so fine.

We are also informing others on the list that a change that they may not have heard of or understood is about to happen to them.

Your work-arounds, while interesting and well known to me, are not sufficient for many others, so are not acceptable general solutions.  Do you think that we should go to the expense of signing and counter-signing the Ozy drivers, or do you not have Ozy/Magister boards, so no dog in this hunt?

73,
George K9TRV

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Traurig [mailto:scott.traurig at gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 1:03 PM
To: George Byrkit <ghbyrkit at chartermi.net>
Cc: OpenHPSDR <hpsdr at openhpsdr.org>
Subject: Re: [hpsdr] Ozy/Magister will likely stop working on Win10 in about 60 days

My apologies, George. I had no idea that a discussion of work-arounds was not germain to the discussion.

What topics would be germain, then?

73,

Scott/wu2o

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 12:58 PM, George Byrkit <ghbyrkit at chartermi.net <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net> > wrote:

	Scott,

	But every new Dell, HP, etc. computer that people buy come with Secure Boot turned on.  So for a limited number of people it is not a problem.  But it is a problem for many people.  The points that you raise are interesting but I don't think that they address the possible solution sufficiently, nor are they really on-topic to what I'm raising.

	So please let's keep the discussion focused on whether there is a provable need to go to the expense and time of signing the Ozy/Magister driver package (libusb0, an older than current version) to keep supporting this interface, when most people have moved to Metis, Hermes, or their successors (Apache Labs products.)

	Whether the problem can be solved for a limited subset of brave users is not germain to this discussion.

	73,
	George K9TRV

	-----Original Message-----
	From: Scott Traurig [mailto:scott.traurig at gmail.com <mailto:scott.traurig at gmail.com> ]
	Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 12:26 PM
	To: George Byrkit <ghbyrkit at chartermi.net <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net> >
	Cc: OpenHPSDR <hpsdr at openhpsdr.org <mailto:hpsdr at openhpsdr.org> >
	Subject: Re: [hpsdr] Ozy/Magister will likely stop working on Win10 in about 60 days

	It certainly seems that if Secure Boot is off then most problems will be alleviated:

	http://www.thewindowsclub.com/driver-signing-changes-windows-10 <http://www.thewindowsclub.com/driver-signing-changes-windows-10> 

	73,

	Scott

	On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 11:20 AM, George Byrkit <ghbyrkit at chartermi.net <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net>  <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net> > > wrote:

	        Scott,
	        This may or may not work on Windows 10.  Certainly I am ONLY talking about Windows 10 Build 1607 and later.  It is not reasonable to expect a Ham to take a boot-time choice each time they (re)boot their computers.  I'm speaking about generally booting a computer.  I suggest that you review the article and other related information and make your own conclusion.

	        What happens for debugging a driver under development is not relevant to what happens when you use a driver as a normal computer user.  I'm telling you that MANY drivers from the past will stop working on Windows 10 at Day 60 (or is it 90) after the release of Windows 10 Anniversary (build 1607), which occurred on August 2, 2016.  One of those affected is the Ozy/Magister 'libusb0' USB driver.

	        And it is a separate issue if you have Secure Boot enabled in the BIOS of a modern computer.  YMMV.  Read, be informed, and draw your own conclusions that are relevant to how you use drivers.

	        I had not seen a warning about this published on this list.  This will affect many pieces of HAM hardware, not just USB devices.  It could affect printers, things like MicroHam 'digikeyer' products and the like, and other pieces of hardware.

	        73,
	        George K9TRV

	        -----Original Message-----
	        From: Scott Traurig [mailto:scott.traurig at gmail.com <mailto:scott.traurig at gmail.com>  <mailto:scott.traurig at gmail.com <mailto:scott.traurig at gmail.com> > ]
	        Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 11:07 AM
	        To: George Byrkit <ghbyrkit at chartermi.net <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net>  <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net> > >
	        Cc: OpenHPSDR <hpsdr at openhpsdr.org <mailto:hpsdr at openhpsdr.org>  <mailto:hpsdr at openhpsdr.org <mailto:hpsdr at openhpsdr.org> > >
	        Subject: Re: [hpsdr] Ozy/Magister will likely stop working on Win10 in about 60 days

	        George,

	        Will this no longer work?

	        http://www.howtogeek.com/167723/how-to-disable-driver-signature-verification-on-64-bit-windows-8.1-so-that-you-can-install-unsigned-drivers/ <http://www.howtogeek.com/167723/how-to-disable-driver-signature-verification-on-64-bit-windows-8.1-so-that-you-can-install-unsigned-drivers/>  <http://www.howtogeek.com/167723/how-to-disable-driver-signature-verification-on-64-bit-windows-8.1-so-that-you-can-install-unsigned-drivers/ <http://www.howtogeek.com/167723/how-to-disable-driver-signature-verification-on-64-bit-windows-8.1-so-that-you-can-install-unsigned-drivers/> >

	        73,

	        Scott/w-u-2-o

	        On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 10:51 AM, George Byrkit <ghbyrkit at chartermi.net <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net>  <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net> >  <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net>  <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net> > > > wrote:

	                ***** High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *****

	                Dear all,

	                So Microsoft has a policy for double-signed drivers on Windows 10 that didn't exist
	                before, and it will take place between 60 and 90 days after the release of Windows 10
	                Anniversary (build 1607).

	                The purpose of this is to ensure that the drivers are fully signed and fully trusted, at a
	                level that is greater than before, in order to be able to load on any computer with Secure
	                Boot active in the BIOS.

	                I won't enter into a debate as to whether this is a good thing or a bad thing.  I will
	                only point out that the Ozy/Magister USB drivers for PowerSDR, KISS Konsole, etc., are NOT
	                double-signed, and I don't really see a need to do that, and take the time, and spend the
	                money to do so.

	                While the current Ozy/Magister USB driver is single-signed, it is signed with a
	                certificate that is too old to be able to put the package thru Microsoft to get their
	                counter-signature.  If you want more information, I suggest that you visit
	                http://www.osr.com/developers-blog <http://www.osr.com/developers-blog>  <http://www.osr.com/developers-blog <http://www.osr.com/developers-blog> >  <http://www.osr.com/developers-blog <http://www.osr.com/developers-blog>  <http://www.osr.com/developers-blog <http://www.osr.com/developers-blog> > >  and check the article 'Driver Signing - more details
	                emerge".

	                To do all of this requires a 'code signing certificate' from one of the vendors of such
	                certificates, apparently with 'EV' (extended validation?)  Such seem to cost $200-$400 per
	                year.  Since everything new uses Metis technology (Ethernet), I don't think that it is
	                worth the cost or the hassle to keep supporting Ozy/Magister on Windows 10.  If someone
	                who wants it to keep working donates the money, there might be a chance to reconsider.

	                73,
	                George K9TRV

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