[hpsdr] Ozy/Magister will likely stop working on Win10 in about 60 days

Sat Aug 20 11:19:50 PDT 2016

Helmut,

I hear what you are saying, but performance in a VM of USB-connected devices is not great.
Nor is the video update rate and such.

Ideally, the population of affected users (have Ozy/Magister and want to run on Windows
10) is small enough that at this point in time we can say 'sorry, but there is no future
in what you are doing', and not provide for them for an indefinite future.  I am hoping
that once informed, a consensus will develop around that position, and allow us to move
on, not have about a $1000 expense (3-year code signing cert with EV) with also un-billed
time expended, just to support what is now obsolete hardware.

I would be very interested in hearing from the likes of Phil VK6PH, Simon (of HRD fame),
John Melton, and others in that group of developers.

73,
George K9TRV

-----Original Message-----
From: Helmut [mailto:dc6ny at gmx.de] 
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 1:56 PM
To: 'George Byrkit' <ghbyrkit at chartermi.net>; 'Scott Traurig' <scott.traurig at gmail.com>
Cc: 'OpenHPSDR' <hpsdr at openhpsdr.org>
Subject: AW: [hpsdr] Ozy/Magister will likely stop working on Win10 in about 60 days

Hi George,

I don’t want to go round your question. IMO the number of Ozy/Magister user
is certainly decreasing out of other reasons and it’s no big deal to install
e.g. Virtual Box on the win 10 machine and run a.m. HPSDR setup on a virtual
win7 partition.

73, Helmut, DC6NY

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Hpsdr [mailto:hpsdr-bounces at lists.openhpsdr.org] Im Auftrag von George
Byrkit
Gesendet: Samstag, 20. August 2016 19:11
An: 'Scott Traurig'
Cc: 'OpenHPSDR'
Betreff: Re: [hpsdr] Ozy/Magister will likely stop working on Win10 in about
60 days

***** High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *****

What would be germane is whether we need to go to the expense of purchasing
a code-signing EV key, signing and having microsoft countersign the
Ozy/Magister drivers, AS I EXPLAINED IN MY EMAIL.  But you seem to want to
ignore the goals of this discussion, so fine.

We are also informing others on the list that a change that they may not
have heard of or understood is about to happen to them.

Your work-arounds, while interesting and well known to me, are not
sufficient for many others, so are not acceptable general solutions.  Do you
think that we should go to the expense of signing and counter-signing the
Ozy drivers, or do you not have Ozy/Magister boards, so no dog in this hunt?

73,
George K9TRV

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Traurig [mailto:scott.traurig at gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 1:03 PM
To: George Byrkit <ghbyrkit at chartermi.net>
Cc: OpenHPSDR <hpsdr at openhpsdr.org>
Subject: Re: [hpsdr] Ozy/Magister will likely stop working on Win10 in about
60 days

My apologies, George. I had no idea that a discussion of work-arounds was
not germain to the discussion.

What topics would be germain, then?

73,

Scott/wu2o

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 12:58 PM, George Byrkit <ghbyrkit at chartermi.net
<mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net> > wrote:

	Scott,

	But every new Dell, HP, etc. computer that people buy come with
Secure Boot turned on.  So for a limited number of people it is not a
problem.  But it is a problem for many people.  The points that you raise
are interesting but I don't think that they address the possible solution
sufficiently, nor are they really on-topic to what I'm raising.

	So please let's keep the discussion focused on whether there is a
provable need to go to the expense and time of signing the Ozy/Magister
driver package (libusb0, an older than current version) to keep supporting
this interface, when most people have moved to Metis, Hermes, or their
successors (Apache Labs products.)

	Whether the problem can be solved for a limited subset of brave
users is not germain to this discussion.

	73,
	George K9TRV

	-----Original Message-----
	From: Scott Traurig [mailto:scott.traurig at gmail.com
<mailto:scott.traurig at gmail.com> ]
	Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 12:26 PM
	To: George Byrkit <ghbyrkit at chartermi.net
<mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net> >
	Cc: OpenHPSDR <hpsdr at openhpsdr.org <mailto:hpsdr at openhpsdr.org> >
	Subject: Re: [hpsdr] Ozy/Magister will likely stop working on Win10
in about 60 days

	It certainly seems that if Secure Boot is off then most problems
will be alleviated:

	http://www.thewindowsclub.com/driver-signing-changes-windows-10
<http://www.thewindowsclub.com/driver-signing-changes-windows-10> 

	73,

	Scott

	On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 11:20 AM, George Byrkit
<ghbyrkit at chartermi.net <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net>
<mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net> > > wrote:

	        Scott,
	        This may or may not work on Windows 10.  Certainly I am ONLY
talking about Windows 10 Build 1607 and later.  It is not reasonable to
expect a Ham to take a boot-time choice each time they (re)boot their
computers.  I'm speaking about generally booting a computer.  I suggest that
you review the article and other related information and make your own
conclusion.

	        What happens for debugging a driver under development is not
relevant to what happens when you use a driver as a normal computer user.
I'm telling you that MANY drivers from the past will stop working on Windows
10 at Day 60 (or is it 90) after the release of Windows 10 Anniversary
(build 1607), which occurred on August 2, 2016.  One of those affected is
the Ozy/Magister 'libusb0' USB driver.

	        And it is a separate issue if you have Secure Boot enabled
in the BIOS of a modern computer.  YMMV.  Read, be informed, and draw your
own conclusions that are relevant to how you use drivers.

	        I had not seen a warning about this published on this list.
This will affect many pieces of HAM hardware, not just USB devices.  It
could affect printers, things like MicroHam 'digikeyer' products and the
like, and other pieces of hardware.

	        73,
	        George K9TRV

	        -----Original Message-----
	        From: Scott Traurig [mailto:scott.traurig at gmail.com
<mailto:scott.traurig at gmail.com>  <mailto:scott.traurig at gmail.com
<mailto:scott.traurig at gmail.com> > ]
	        Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 11:07 AM
	        To: George Byrkit <ghbyrkit at chartermi.net
<mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net>  <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net
<mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net> > >
	        Cc: OpenHPSDR <hpsdr at openhpsdr.org
<mailto:hpsdr at openhpsdr.org>  <mailto:hpsdr at openhpsdr.org
<mailto:hpsdr at openhpsdr.org> > >
	        Subject: Re: [hpsdr] Ozy/Magister will likely stop working
on Win10 in about 60 days

	        George,

	        Will this no longer work?

http://www.howtogeek.com/167723/how-to-disable-driver-signature-verification
-on-64-bit-windows-8.1-so-that-you-can-install-unsigned-drivers/
<http://www.howtogeek.com/167723/how-to-disable-driver-signature-verificatio
n-on-64-bit-windows-8.1-so-that-you-can-install-unsigned-drivers/>
<http://www.howtogeek.com/167723/how-to-disable-driver-signature-verificatio
n-on-64-bit-windows-8.1-so-that-you-can-install-unsigned-drivers/
<http://www.howtogeek.com/167723/how-to-disable-driver-signature-verificatio
n-on-64-bit-windows-8.1-so-that-you-can-install-unsigned-drivers/> >

	        73,

	        Scott/w-u-2-o

	        On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 10:51 AM, George Byrkit
<ghbyrkit at chartermi.net <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net>
<mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net> >
<mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net>
<mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net <mailto:ghbyrkit at chartermi.net> > > > wrote:

	                ***** High Performance Software Defined Radio
Discussion List *****

	                Dear all,

	                So Microsoft has a policy for double-signed drivers
on Windows 10 that didn't exist
	                before, and it will take place between 60 and 90
days after the release of Windows 10
	                Anniversary (build 1607).

	                The purpose of this is to ensure that the drivers
are fully signed and fully trusted, at a
	                level that is greater than before, in order to be
able to load on any computer with Secure
	                Boot active in the BIOS.

	                I won't enter into a debate as to whether this is a
good thing or a bad thing.  I will
	                only point out that the Ozy/Magister USB drivers for
PowerSDR, KISS Konsole, etc., are NOT
	                double-signed, and I don't really see a need to do
that, and take the time, and spend the
	                money to do so.

	                While the current Ozy/Magister USB driver is
single-signed, it is signed with a
	                certificate that is too old to be able to put the
package thru Microsoft to get their
	                counter-signature.  If you want more information, I
suggest that you visit
	                http://www.osr.com/developers-blog
<http://www.osr.com/developers-blog>  <http://www.osr.com/developers-blog
<http://www.osr.com/developers-blog> >  <http://www.osr.com/developers-blog
<http://www.osr.com/developers-blog>  <http://www.osr.com/developers-blog
<http://www.osr.com/developers-blog> > >  and check the article 'Driver
Signing - more details
	                emerge".

	                To do all of this requires a 'code signing
certificate' from one of the vendors of such
	                certificates, apparently with 'EV' (extended
validation?)  Such seem to cost $200-$400 per
	                year.  Since everything new uses Metis technology
(Ethernet), I don't think that it is
	                worth the cost or the hassle to keep supporting
Ozy/Magister on Windows 10.  If someone
	                who wants it to keep working donates the money,
there might be a chance to reconsider.

	                73,
	                George K9TRV

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