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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The P/P circuit appears to offer the highest
claimed IP3. Makhinson claimed output IP3 of 48dBm with 8dB gain and
2dB noise figure. Of course there is no guarantee a subsitution of the MRF586
will give the same result. Not sure if the TT1-1 output transformer has a cntr
tap, but if so would be ideal for balanced input to the QSD/QSE. Possibly though
not so conveient for a diplexer.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ray.anderson@xilinx.com href="mailto:ray.anderson@xilinx.com">Ray
Anderson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=hpsdr@hpsdr.org
href="mailto:hpsdr@hpsdr.org">hpsdr@hpsdr.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 24, 2006 9:43 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [hpsdr] Proposal for a
'low-end' RX/TX board for HPSDR</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>***** High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"> Can anyone comment on what
attributes the Makhinson (N6NWP) circuit (which is essentially a pair of
Norton amps in push-pull) brings to the table that would make it preferable
over the Norton amp in this application.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>HPSDR Discussion
List<BR>To post msg: hpsdr@hpsdr.org<BR>Subscription help:
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ray.anderson@xilinx.com href="mailto:ray.anderson@xilinx.com">Ray
Anderson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=hpsdr@hpsdr.org
href="mailto:hpsdr@hpsdr.org">hpsdr@hpsdr.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 24, 2006 9:43 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [hpsdr] Proposal for a
'low-end' RX/TX board for HPSDR</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>***** High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List
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<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"> Can anyone comment on what
attributes the Makhinson (N6NWP) circuit (which is essentially a pair of
Norton amps in push-pull) brings to the table that would make it preferable
over the Norton amp in this application.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>> I can see the argument for the front end LNA at
10 meters (or maybe even<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>> 15 meters), but on the bands below that I think
it may actually be a<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>> liability unless you have an extraordinarily
high IP3 for the preamp.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>> While this can be done it comes at the expense
of quite a bit of DC<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>> current. This may not be a big deal but is
something to be considered.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>Typicaly the LNA will take 60-80mA. Compared to what
will disappear on tx<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>it pretty insignificant. One advantage of some
amplification will be to <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>lift rx noise floor compared to the spurs and sprogs
from the LO and DIG <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>inside the enclosure!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>Ulrich suggested I think the BFG591 as a SMD
alternative to the 2N5109 for<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>mixers and amp. Maybe the part would go well either
in a Norton<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>configuration or the Mahkinson (N6NWP) MRF586 push
pull pre-amp.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>Shel CT1IZU<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">Shel-<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">Good comments. Upon further consideration
I tend to agree with you. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">The performance of a QSD can also be
improved by including a diplexer between the BPF and the QSD to properly
terminate the QSD input out of band. By utilizing the preamp the noise figure at
higher frequencies is improved and the QSD also sees a constant termination
impedance across a wide band since the amp exhibits 50 ohm input and output
Z.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">I’ve recently placed a schematic of a
typical Norton amp on the Phoenix Wiki page. The schematic shows feedback turn s
ratios set up for about 9.5 dB gain. Can anyone comment on what attributes the
Makhinson (N6NWP) circuit (which is essentially a pair of Norton amps in
push-pull) brings to the table that would make it preferable over the Norton amp
in this application.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">Does anyone have some target figures
regarding performance that we should aspire to obtain? I think an IP3 of +40dBm
with a dynamic range of at least 100 dB and a noise floor in the vicinity of
-130 to -140 dbm are in the ballpark for state-of-the-art HF front ends these
days.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">I’m currently evaluating various options
as far as preamps, QSD circuits, filtering etc. are concerned. If anyone has any
favorite implementations that may be appropriate to <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Phoenix</st1:City></st1:place> I’d like to see
them during this evaluation phase.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">73, Ray
WB6TPU<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>HPSDR Discussion
List<BR>To post msg: hpsdr@hpsdr.org<BR>Subscription help:
http://lists.hpsdr.org/listinfo.cgi/hpsdr-hpsdr.org<BR>HPSDR web page:
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ray.anderson@xilinx.com href="mailto:ray.anderson@xilinx.com">Ray
Anderson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=hpsdr@hpsdr.org
href="mailto:hpsdr@hpsdr.org">hpsdr@hpsdr.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 24, 2006 9:43 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [hpsdr] Proposal for a
'low-end' RX/TX board for HPSDR</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>***** High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List
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<P class=MsoPlainText><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"> Can anyone comment on what
attributes the Makhinson (N6NWP) circuit (which is essentially a pair of
Norton amps in push-pull) brings to the table that would make it preferable
over the Norton amp in this application.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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