[hpsdr] Why?

Chris Down Chris.Down at alcor.co.uk
Wed May 13 12:21:33 PDT 2009


John,
Thanks for clarifying the situation. Please bear in mind that I am not 
trying to apportion blame, just trying to be clear about what exactly 
happened and why so that we can all learn from it. I am not taking sides 
just trying to clarify the reasons for all list members.

Comments below:

On 13/05/2009 18:41, John Ackermann N8UR wrote:
> Chris, I'm not aware of any facts that were withheld during the
> discussions about how to respond to the hpsdr.org shutdown. I'm not
> going to get into a tit-for-tat argument, so suffice it to say that I
> don't agree with Phil's characterization of events, and perhaps that is
> the crux of the issue.

I only raised this point because you said that "We don't really know 
what led Phil to take the action he did; it came out of the blue".
>
> I do need to correct one statement that you made: As Bill noted in the
> first message of this thread, nothing was done to Phil's access to the
> mailing list before the domain shutdown. Whatever grievances he had
> could have been discussed on the list at any time prior to that event,
> and would not have been subject to moderation. The actions regarding
> Phil's access to the system were taken *after* he pulled the plug on
> hpsdr.org on April 12.

Again, thanks for clarifying this. The picture is becoming much clearer.

> Finally, I will leave you with one thought before I get back to ham
> radio: If you think what was done to Phil's privileges was "drastic,"
> how would you describe disabling the entire hpsdr.org system --
> including access to the mailing list to discuss the situation -- without
> warning? Because that is what happened, and that is what we were
> responding to.

I agree with you here disabling the entire hpsdr.org system without 
warning was not the best way to resolve the problems. However Phil C 
states on his that page that he emailed the website administrator to 
warn them that the hpsdr.org domain would change. We list members have 
no way of telling what the exact sequence of events was and all I am 
trying to do is clarify the reasons to ensure that members of this list 
understand why we are in this position so that we can all move forward.

I am sorry if you feel that this discussion is QRM. Some list members 
that have purchased hardware and invested time and money on this project 
feel that it important to understand why we got into this situation. 
Potential developers also need reassuring prior to investing their 
valuable time and money contributing to the project.

As I said earlier I am not trying to apportion blame and I intend to 
remain neutral by not taking sides. I can understand why both sides feel 
aggrieved and it is a pity that we can't find some way of overcoming the 
differences between the two sides.

Regards

Chris G8MXW


> Chris Down said the following on 05/13/2009 11:36 AM:
>> ***** High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *****
>>
>> Phil C, thanks for posting the clarification. It certainly raises a
>> lot of questions as to why these drastic actions were taken by the
>> "core group" instead of trying to resolve the original cause of the
>> problem in an open and democratic fashion.
>>
>> John, you stated: "I'm one of the people who was involved in the
>> events. We don't really know what led Phil to take the action he did;
>> it came out of the blue, which was one of the troubling aspects."
>>
>> What I find more troubling is that from what you are saying, it
>> appears that you (and maybe others) made these decision without all
>> the facts to hand. Surely it would have been common sense to talk to
>> Phil and get his side of the story before taking such drastic actions.
>> It is pretty obvious to me that at least one person new the reasons.
>> Are you saying that you and others involved in the decision making
>> were not informed of this?
>>
>> I am trying to remain neutral in all this, however the responses from
>> the people who have taken these decisions seem to be lacking in
>> openness and clarity. The justification was that Phil C took down the
>> web site without notifying the 'core group'. My question is; if his
>> emails were prevented from being published because the actions of the
>> list moderator, how could he have put his case forward?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Chris G8MXW
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13/05/2009 15:06, Philip Covington wrote:
>>> If this actually makes it to the list, my responses to these "claims"
>>> are posted to:
>>>
>>> < http://hpsdr.org/why.html>
>>>
>>> I will post my responses there (with updates) to avoid being
>>> "moderated" here again.
>>>
>>> Phil N8VB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 7:46 AM, John Ackermann N8UR<jra at febo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> ***** High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *****
>>>>
>>>> I'm one of the people who was involved in the events. We don't
>>>> really know
>>>> what led Phil to take the action he did; it came out of the blue,
>>>> which was
>>>> one of the troubling aspects.
>>>>
>>>> Phil later gave some explanations in private email. In my view, they
>>>> in no
>>>> way justified the action he took. Further, Phil's email gave no
>>>> indication
>>>> that he wouldn't do the same thing again if he disagreed with the
>>>> way the
>>>> HPSDR project was being managed. As a result, I felt the existence
>>>> of HPSDR
>>>> was being held hostage by one person, and that something needed to
>>>> be done.
>>>>
>>>> There is no formal HPSDR organization. I guess that's a blessing or a
>>>> curse, depending on the circumstances. I can say that the people who
>>>> were
>>>> involved in the decisions of the last few weeks represent most of
>>>> those who
>>>> are associated with the main HPSDR project set and with the
>>>> administration
>>>> of the web site and mailing list.
>>>>
>>>> openhpsdr.org is currently being maintained by TAPR at the request
>>>> of that
>>>> core group.
>>>>
>>>> To my knowledge, none of the people in that group have a personal
>>>> financial
>>>> interest in any of the HPSDR projects. I am a TAPR board member, and of
>>>> course TAPR has had a financial involvement in production of HPSDR
>>>> boards;
>>>> as I mentioned in my post yesterday, that happens on a case-by-case
>>>> basis
>>>> solely at the developer's discretion.
>>>>
>>>> John N8UR
>>>> OHL and NCL Author
>>>> Pandora Project Manager
>>>> ----
>>>> Chris Down said the following on 05/13/2009 04:34 AM:
>>>>>
>>>>> ***** High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *****
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately this explanation lacks any detail as to what led Phil
>>>>> C to
>>>>> to take such drastic action. Would it be possible for someone to
>>>>> explain the
>>>>> sequence of events that led to this unfortunate and unnecessary
>>>>> situation.
>>>>> As I said in my previous email, I am not taking any sides (I have
>>>>> never had
>>>>> any contact with Phil C), it is just that a lot of people have
>>>>> invested
>>>>> time and money into the HPSDR project.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been passively following this project for a while and
>>>>> contemplating
>>>>> getting involved in the project, however after recent events I have
>>>>> some
>>>>> concerns.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who makes the decisions on the direction of the project?
>>>>>
>>>>> Do any of these people have any commercial interests that could
>>>>> influence
>>>>> the direction of the project? If so this should be stated publicly
>>>>> on the
>>>>> web site.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who owns and controls the domain name openhpsdr.org? Unfortuantely the
>>>>> owner as opted to protect the details by using a private
>>>>> registration proxy.
>>>>>
>>>>> What safeguards are in place to prevent a similar situation
>>>>> occurring in
>>>>> future?
>>>>>
>>>>> How many people have administration rights to the wiki and website
>>>>> and who
>>>>> are these people?
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you intend to allow registered members to edit wiki pages?
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps the answers to the above should be documented as an
>>>>> overview of
>>>>> the project administration structure on a wiki page.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there anything that can be done to reconcile the parties
>>>>> involved in
>>>>> this? Perhaps people on both sides have acted impulsively and said
>>>>> and done
>>>>> things that with hindsight could have been presented differently
>>>>> and maybe
>>>>> now is the time to admit that, shake hands and move forward in the
>>>>> interests
>>>>> of the community.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry to ask so many questions and I know we would all rather be
>>>>> dealing
>>>>> with technical issues. However I feel it is important to understand
>>>>> why this
>>>>> situation occurred and what we as a community can do to prevent it
>>>>> happening
>>>>> again and also prevent a split in the community.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris G8MXW
>>>>>
>>>>> On 13/05/2009 00:01, Bill Tracey wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ***** High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The actions that Phil C. mentions on his web page all occurred after
>>>>>> Phil disabled hpsdr.org on or about the 12th of April, by
>>>>>> redirecting it
>>>>>> to a "dummy" site. In addition to disabling the web site, this action
>>>>>> also disabled the mailing list so it was impossible to communicate to
>>>>>> the group what was happening. This was done with no warning to the
>>>>>> webmaster or system administrator, and with no explanation as to
>>>>>> why it
>>>>>> was done. As a result of that action and further communications with
>>>>>> Phil C, there was great concern that the web site and mailing list
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> at risk, and that a similar disruption could occur in the future.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With great reluctance it was felt we had no choice but to put
>>>>>> controls
>>>>>> in place that would limit the damage that could be done to the HPSDR
>>>>>> Internet resources. That included transition to a new domain
>>>>>> (openhpsdr.org) that Phil C. does not control, as well as
>>>>>> protecting the
>>>>>> wiki from unlimited editing by someone who had clearly indicated
>>>>>> he was
>>>>>> at odds with the direction of the project. Finally, Phil C. is
>>>>>> incorrect
>>>>>> in saying that he was blocked from posting to the mailing list; he
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> put on moderated status to allow review of his messages before
>>>>>> posting,
>>>>>> but not unsubscribed or otherwise blocked.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I do not believe anyone is trying to deny Phil C's significant
>>>>>> contributions to the HPSDR project. However, his recent actions
>>>>>> endangered the project itself and actions were taken to protect the
>>>>>> project that we've all invested much time and effort in.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was involved in the discussions among many of the HPSDR
>>>>>> contributors
>>>>>> behind these actions and support the actions that were taken.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As to why this was done 'behind the scenes' - it was felt it would be
>>>>>> better to try and do this without having a nasty ugly fight in
>>>>>> public.
>>>>>> In hind sight that may not have been the best approach.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope this answers everyone's questions on what has happened, and we
>>>>>> can soon return to working on the HPSDR projects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill (kd5tfd)


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