[hpsdr] J16 confusion

[Bill Diaz]

Dick,
     See below:

On 8/2/2013 1:50 PM, Dick Faust wrote:
> Some of the older versions of the manuals [back to ver 1.10] are 
> available on the svn in the Hermes Archives folder.  For older 
> versions you will have to find someone that downloaded that specific 
> version.

     Note that the links for 1.7 and 1.8 on your web site are broken.  
No way to see exactly how you improved the manual right now.

>
> As you so aptly diagramed it below, the current manual  is correct. 
> [and has been for about a year]

     No, it is NOT correct as outlined in the excerpt from the Hermes 
manual I included.  One of the issues I noted, was what users with KEYED 
IDC will see when connecting to J16.  Please read again what I posted.

>
> It is important to READ the documentation and not assume facts not in 
> evidence.
> In Figure 4 of the manual every connector has pin 1 marked also on the 
> PCB every pin #1 is clearly marked with a square.

         The labeling of the photograph on page 4 is ambiguous at best.  
Is the "1" over pin 1, or pin 2?  Note that pin 2 is the top pin (the 
RED square with the 1 is touching this pin) and is clearly marked on 
boards I have examined with a "2" on the printed circuit board.  The 2 
is readily evident in the TAPR board picture used on the title page of 
the Hermes documentation as well.

> The schematic for that area has been the same since the prototype 
> build and has a clue to why the board was designed the way it was.
> If you use the "BOM"  to assemble the board there is not a keyed IDC 
> connector specified for J16 [although all of the boards were built 
> with one even though the "BOM" says "26 PIN BERG (2x15)"]

     As I stated in my earlier post, Kjell clearly stated it was an 
error introduced during the early design phase.   Since this small 
portion of the schematic has been deemed incorrect by one of its 
creators, continued use of this schematic doesn't make it correct today. 
   We just have to make sure that users do not damage their equipment by 
incorrectly connecting to J16.

         We are talking about manufactured boards here, not home built.  
Apparently both TAPR and Apache used the same BOM?  Why do you suppose 
they used a keyed connector?  Could it be because  the use of keyed 
connectors are prudent when interfacing external equipment to a radio?   
Please read again what I posted, and don't assume facts not in evidence.

     "26 PIN BERG (2x15)" ?  Is that what your BOM actually says? 
Obviously it should read 2x13, not 2x15.

>
> When someone finds a /_similar_/ mating part  it behoves that person 
> to again to READ the documentation to be sure it really is a "mating 
> part" and is configured properly for the intended use. Or figure out 
> how to reconfigure the part.

         Once again, J16 in the assembled TAPR and Apache Hermes boards 
are KEYED connectors.  The mating part should then be a KEYED connector 
according to YOUR logic, correct?  I did read the Hermes documentation 
several times.  Where in the Hermes documentation does it mention the 
requirement to use an UNKEYED IDC connector with J16?  Page number 
please.  I want to check your "facts".


>
> Hopefully the confused will read Bill's re-explanation below and 
> perhaps print a copy for their documentation.
>
> Fortunately or not the board was designed, reviewed and documented 
> properly for the design that it is and hundreds of boards have been 
> produced that work.  Pay attention to the documents or experience 
> smoke.  Perhaps a variation of the old Carpenters saw applies here too 
> [measure twice - cut once].

         Have you considered what can happen if you plugged in an 
unkeyed IDC connector the wrong  way(or right way depending on your view 
point).  BAD things are likely to happen, depending on what you have 
connected to the other end of the cable.  And you are saying those bad 
things would be by design?  Heaven help us.

Bill KC9XG


>
> Dick K9IVB
>
> Bill Diaz wrote:
>> ***** High Performance Software Defined Radio Discussion List *****
>>
>> J16 pin numbering confusion.
>>
>> I still hear from users confused by the J16 schematic numbering 
>> scheme on both the Hermes, Angelia board KEYED IDC connectors and the 
>> Apache Labs ANAN-100 and ANAN-100D DB25 accessory port. Many of these 
>> users are using breakout boards with KEYED 26 pin IDC connectors and 
>> they cannot understand why the pinout on these boards differs from 
>> the  J16 pinout found on the Hermes and Angelia schematics.
>>
>> Both the assembled TAPR and Apache Labs Hermes boards were built with 
>> a 26 pin KEYED IDC connector installed on board, designated J16 on 
>> the schematics. IDC Pin 1 is clearly indicated on the top of the 
>> installed KEYED 26 pin IDC connector.  Unfortunately, J16 KEYED IDC 
>> pin 1 actually corresponds with J16 pin 26 on the Hermes and Angelia 
>> schematics, hence the confusion for users who use KEYED industry 
>> standard IDC connectors for interconnection purposes.
>>
>> Some time ago Kjell explained how the pin numbering confusion 
>> occurred,  Nuff said about that.  Hopefully, the following will 
>> lessen some confusion.  BTW, much of the following information is 
>> from the ANAN-10 and ANAN-100 user docs.  RTFM for more details.
>>
>> Hermes_User_Manual_V1.17.pdf includes the following J16 note on page 14:
>> IMPORTANT NOTE: The pin numbers may NOT correspond to individual 
>> cables within an IDC
>> ribbon cable. In particular, ex PC IDC cables do NOT match the 
>> pin-outs shown in the photo.
>>
>> Clearly, the J16 pin numbers on the schematic WILL NOT correspond to 
>> pin numbers of any KEYED 26 pin IDC connector a user may install in J16.
>>
>>  The following information details the correlation between the J16 
>> pin numbers on the Hermes and Angelia schematics and pin numbers 
>> found on a standard 26 pin KEYED IDC connector.
>>
>> Note: The ANAN-100 and ANAN-100D further confuse the issue by using a 
>> DB25 female connector for the Accessory port (J16) and this changes 
>> the pinout yet again!  See listing below the Hermes/Angelia J16 
>> pinout for details.
>>
>> Hermes/Angelia J16 pinout for 26 pin KEYED IDC ribbon cable.
>> (Numbers in parentheses are J16 Pinout shown on Hermes and Angelia 
>> schematics)
>>
>> 1.  User Digital input 3: Connected to 3.3V via 1K pullup resistor (26)
>> 2.  Open-drain PTT output (25).
>> 3   OCREF Open-Collector reference/flyback diodes (24)
>> 4.  OC6 User open-collector output 7 (23)
>> 5.  OC5 User open-collector output 6 (22)
>> 6.  OC4 User open-collector output 5 (21)
>> 7.  OC3 User open-collector output 4 (20)
>> 8.  OC2 User open-collector output 3 (19)
>> 9.  OC1 User open-collector output 2 (18).
>> 10. OC0 User open-collector output 1 (17)
>> 11  User Digital input 2: Connected to 3.3V via 1K pullup resistor (16)
>> 12  Right channel speaker balanced (ROUT+) pair with pin 13 (15)
>> 13  Right channel speaker, balanced (ROUT-) pair with pin 12 (14).
>> 14  User Digital input 4: connnected to 3.3V via 1K pullup resistor (13)
>> 15  User Analogue input 2: 0-3V max (12)
>> 16  User Analogue input 1: 0-3V max (11)
>> 17  Analogue Ground (10)
>> 18  User Digital input 1: Connected to 3.3V via 1K pullup resistor (9)
>> 19  Right channel line Out (unbalanced) (8)
>> 20  Left channel line Out (7)
>> 21  Left channel phones output (6)
>> 22  Right channel phones output(5)
>> 23  Right channel line-level audio input (unbalanced) (4)
>> 24  Left channel line-level audio input* (unbalanced) (3)
>> 25  Analogue Ground (2)
>> 26  PTT : connected to 3.3V via 1k pullup resistor(1) (same as Mic 
>> PTT, J2 if JP6 used)
>>
>>
>> The PowerSDR Setup, ANAN Ctrl tab numbering scheme for the J16 
>> Receive and transmit pins does not represent the actual keyed IDC pin 
>> numbers.
>>
>> PowerSDR
>> As shown    IDC ribbon cable    Hermes Schematic
>>    1            10            17
>>    2            9            18
>>    3            8            19
>>    4            7            20
>>    5            6            21
>>    6            5            22
>>    7            4            23
>>                 3 OCRef.   24
>>
>>
>> The Apache Labs ANAN-100 and ANAN-100D Accessory Port/J16/DB25 
>> numbering confusion:
>>
>> The Hermes/Angelia schematic detail J16 pin numbering does not 
>> correspond to KEYED IDC ribbon cable numbering conventions. An IDC to 
>> DB25 adapter cable further re-arranges the pin numbers available on 
>> the rear panel Accessory Port of the ANAN-100 and ANAN-100D. J16-26 
>> ANALOG 3 user input is lost, but it is not presently supported by 
>> PowerSDR in any case.
>>
>>
>> Pin out and connections between 26 pin J16, Modified (shifted) 26 pin 
>> KEYED IDC ribbon cable and DB 25.
>>
>> J16       1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 
>> 21 22 23 24 25 26
>> IDC   26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17  16 15 14 13 12 11 10  9  8 7 6  
>> 5  4  3  2  1
>> DB25     13 25 12 24 11 23 10 22  9 21  8 20  7  19  6 18  5 17 4 16  
>> 3 15  2 14  1
>>
>>
>> DB25 Acc Port pinout.  Number in parentheses is the J16 pin number 
>> shown on the schematic.
>>
>> 1.  Open-drain PTT output (25)
>> 2.  OC6 User open-collector output 7 (23)
>> 3.  OC4 User open-collector output 5 (21)
>> 4.  OC2 User open-collector output 3 (19)
>> 5.  OC0 User open-collector output 1 (17)
>> 6.  Right channel speaker balanced pair (ROUT+) with pin 19 (15)
>> 7.  User Digital input 4: connected to 3.3V via 1K pullup resistor (13)
>> 8.  User Analogue input 1: 0-3V max (11)
>> 9.  User Digital input 1: Connected to 3.3V via 1K pullup resistor (9)
>> 10. Left channel line Out (unbalanced) (7)
>> 11. Right channel phones output(5)
>> 12. Left channel line-level audio input* (unbalanced) (3)
>> 13. PTT input, connected to 3.3V via 1K pullup resistor (1)
>> 14. OCREf Open-Collector reference/flyback diodes (24)
>> 15. OC5 User open-collector output 6 (22)
>> 16. OC3 User open-collector output 4 (20)
>> 17. OC1 User open-collector output 2 (18)
>> 18. User Digital input 2: Connected to 3.3V via 1K pullup resistor (16)
>> 19. Right channel speaker, balanced pair (ROUT-) with pin 6 (14)
>> 20. User Analogue input 2: 0-3V max (12)
>> 21. Analogue Ground (10)
>> 22. Right channel line Out (unbalanced) (8)
>> 23. Left channel phones output (6)
>> 24. Right channel line-level audio input (unbalanced) (4)
>> 25. Analogue Ground (2)
>>
>>
>> The PowerSDR Setup, ANAN Ctrl tab numbering scheme for the J16 
>> Receive and transmit pins does not represent the actual pin numbers.
>>
>> PowerSDR        Acc Port
>> As shown        DB25 cable    Hermes/Angelia Schematic J-16
>>    1            5            17 OC0
>>    2            17            18 0C1
>>    3            4            19 OC2
>>    4            16            20 OC3
>>    5            3            21 OC4
>>    6            15            22 OC5
>>    7            2            23 OC6
>>             14 OC REF      24 OC REF
>>
>>
>> HTH,
>> Bill KC9XG
>>
>>
>


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